Harbouring the assets of anti Imperial pilots

What a farce - CA saying they will defend the assets of the pirate Vice...

personal friendships before loyalty to the Empire.

and to think I made a donation towards the defences of this area.


No wonder Sinjay gave up... I share his sentiments - dealing with such hypocrital stupidity makes a game a chore rather than a source of enjoyment.

Just saw Vice has added thors to his temp MO.

Whats going on as we don't want Vice in the empire either, is CA paying for the defences?!??!?

In the EWSC Coalition forum there is no reply to the thread started concerning Vice. It is very likely that this coalition will disband or will loose some of it's members in the near future.

CA did say they provided Vice with finance for MO defences...

Vice adding Thors means someone allows him access to EWSC and to droids...

putting resources into the MO says much about the hypocrisy; and may well indicate that CA's claims to be looking at replacing the MO are in fact a way to buy time for Vice to fortify it further.


Its not like Vice hasn't been attacking the Empire for months... CA's actions seem at best disingenuous...


Still its no longer my problem

I wish you luck in dealing with such people.

The MO being reinforced is in obvious contrast to the claim the MO'd be replaced. You don't invest that many resources in a MO you claim you can't replace yet due to a lack of said resources and we should thus react accordingly really unless they can offer a viable excuse however unlikely that might be.

Just to keep everyone posted on the developments of this (and clarify anything about my post in the forum):

1. I was not aware that Vice's MO was being upgraded; all funding & materials for these upgrades came from either Vice or GREED, and not from CA. GREED, with many of its members being TSS, has no cash flow problem (check alliance statistics if you don't believe me).

2. I am in talks with Vice concerning the demolition of his (non-MO) buildings in the EWSC. I suspect this is the only way the MO could potentially remain standing (as it would then protect only EWSC assets, and not his own).

3. Vice is *not* on any friend lists in the EWSC, so he cannot repair anywhere here (except for docking on his MO, which takes forever). His access into the sector was most likely through the PE11 MO, where he was charged a toll.

4. To reiterate #1, CA helped fund the initial MO's construction (over a year ago), but did not fund any of the recent upgrades.

just a couple of observations:

1. Aeolus clearly stated in a message to me that you would finance upgrades to the MO - and it wasn't past tense. Also, he was able to acquire droids from somewhere. Given that GREED supposedly banished him and CA claim association with and vouch for GREED, GREED involvement reflects on CA - and given the double standards and inconsistency in comments by CA, only a fool would take your ascertations at face value.
Still its not like GREED haven't had a history of targeting Imperial pilots until pressured into discontinuing the practice.


2. Vice has gone full blown pirate and being attacking the Empire for months - to only look for removal of his profitable buildings now once you have come under pressure says much; and as he was an enemy of the Empire a deal to provide him with finance in return for providing defence on his terms - not in any way defending the Empire; is hardly showing loyalty to the Empire and is a blatant insult to his victims and Imperial law.
Why ask Vic to remove the DS at his convenience? Just destroy it, or at worst embargo / blockade it so it earns him nothing. It seems you're doing all you can to accommodate him.

3. He's an enemy of the Empire, yet he's still granted access to Imperial territory when it suits - guess what purpose border MOs are supposed to serve.! - given that the tolls allow the tracking of pilots and its often stated that that is their purpose "likely" is somewhat vague. As mentioned before, Vice was able to acquire large amounts of droids from somewhere - so its either friendlisting at a starbase (possibly temporary) or active collusion by pilots; either GREED or quite possibly CA.

4. The MO is the property of a pirate and enemy of the Empire. He is able to dictate terms as to access and use it as a leverage in other matters - e.g to retain the DS
The fact that MO has stronger defences than the border MOs says much about priorities and misdirection of resources and probably explains why the border is still so far behind schedule even though more than enough funds should have been available.
Donations were made to assist defences, and people should've made 20-30mil+ of cash beyond the cost of a well equipped MC in ranking to Prince.
But then CA had no cash to replace MOs during the Vendetta war... somewhat bizarre given its membership and that GREED's illegals are supposed to provide to assist such defence construction (although I had it n good information that they ticked "intermittenty").

Guest wrote:

just a couple of observations:
1. Aeolus clearly stated in a message to me that you would finance upgrades to the MO - and it wasn't past tense. Also, he was able to acquire droids from somewhere. Given that GREED supposedly banished him and CA claim association with and vouch for GREED, GREED involvement reflects on CA - and given the double standards and inconsistency in comments by CA, only a fool would take your ascertations at face value.
Still its not like GREED haven't had a history of targeting Imperial pilots until pressured into discontinuing the practice.

Who are you to question my word? You know nothing about me.
If I say I was unaware of the recent upgrades, it means I was unaware of the recent upgrades. Period.

Maybe you should re-read whatever it is Aeolus sent you & decide whether it's:
a) You misinterpreting his words; b) Him speaking incorrectly on my behalf, or c) Him speaking his own opinion. Feel free to copy & paste whatever PM he sent you - just blot out "Icarium" so you retain your anonymity.

Vice is not foe listed at our SBs in the EWSC. He's just not friend listed. Your rep can sink low enough to prevent repair, but still be high enough to trade with a starbase. Perhaps you should learn game mechanics a little bit better before hurling accusations. Pretty sure he's not the one trading, anyway - all he needs is someone to transport materials for him (I can guess as to who this might be, but I don't know for certain).

You know why we haven't removed Vice's MO? Because it doesn't hurt us to leave it there. We still have other pressing matters to attend to; for example, ensuring all the MOs leading into the cluster are maxed. This issue does nothing but distract us from achieving our objectives.

Why are "guests" allowed access to this forum, anyway?

Lobby wrote:

Why are "guests" allowed access to this forum, anyway?

The last time I checked this thread, the name was Icarium instead of guest. It looks like he has deleted his account and his name has been replaced with 'Guest'.

Who is Guest?
And why are Guests allowed on this forum?

The Guest obviously knows little about Vice and The WESC.

If you don't know WESC politics stay out, how about those apples. Lets all pretend our opinion means something.

After further reading:
Icarium you know is one of the $^#%@ behind the old forum. What a bitch. Just trying to cause more problems for the Empire what a hole of a buttocks. Him and The Enigma cause this fecal matter all the time. They are 2 big reasons the Other forum sucked like a vacuum.

When did Vice become an Enemy of the Empire?

Who is in charge? Can we get tighter security on these threads, like access. And Make sure these guests have no access.

Look how people talk so much information to something so useless. Don't get suckered into these lies and Cons. Think people.

I hate to bring cursing into a thread but this is pretty stupid. Who cares about a MO of Vice.

Can Admins see who this guest was and if in fact it is Icarium the noob?

To remind everyone;

Guests have Access only to "Outsiders"
Only Imperials have access to this part.

For futher proof,

Quote :

You receive this automatic email because Icarium on "The Imperial Council" - https://imperialcouncil.forummotion.com has deleted his account.

Faxen you insulted Icarium alot yet I did not finda singly line that justifies vice having a MO outpost in the EWSC and, especially, him being allowed to have profitable buildings there. Instead of this disgracefull behavior we should be making plans to attack him in retaliation for the attack on an imperial starbase.

Faxenmacher wrote:

When did Vice become an Enemy of the Empire?

Is this a trick question? I shouldn't have to produce a list of the IOO pilots he's shot down, not to mention the hordes of unbountied unaligned empire pilots, oh and then there is the small matter of attacking an SB in the ESC just a couple of weeks ago

The MO will be removed at some point in the near future, if CA and or greed want to do it on their own terms so they can organise another one quickly then that's great, don't think that upgrading the MO and delaying will stop it being removed however,

I'm just wondering, is there anything preventing us from taking down this MO besides other projects and tasks at hand? I'm surethat if we gathered enough players, we could take down that MO and replace it with one of our own. If someone is already planning on how to takr Vice's MO down, I'll be more than happy to join you.

Destroying it isn't a challenge at all, seeing the status of the MO more then a few could probably do it without any backup. Best to first check in since Corporate Authority seeems to wish to cling to the MO for some reason.

I'll ask them about it then.

The fact that this is an issue with so many people is, in my opinion, further proof that the Empire needs a lot of work.

While Vice is, indeed, a pirate and he obviously has issues with some Imperials, this was not always the case. As a CA member I am at least passingly familiar with Vice and his buildings. I can assure you that Vice is a straight up guy in that his word is good when given. Some time ago he agreed to provide that MO. Since then he has obviously been pirating his little heart out. He has in the meantime kept his MO in place with the agreed pass settings until such time CA or another designated EWSC pilot is ready to replace it.

It seems to me that as the caretakers of the sector Corporate Authority should have the responsibility as well as the right to decide who gets to build what and where. The related nooks and the buildings within are in place in accordance with EWSC Coalition policy. Is there anyone who would dispute our right to police our own sectors? While the offer to destroy the MO for us is no doubt appreciated it may not be entirely appropriate at this time.

If those who want to step in and blow up the MO would possess themselves of a little patience the issue will resolve itself soon enough. If you are unwilling to wait then maybe it would be appropriate to contact Lobby who, I am sure would be more than happy to accept donations of credits, droids, or building material to expedite the MO transfer. If the MO bothers you and you have the courage of your convictions, as well as a modicum of respect for CA and the EWSC, this is an elegant solution to a sticky problem...

Further attacks on, or destruction of, that MO will only serve to further divide the Empire at a time when we should be getting our affairs in order, doing something about the obviously splintered command structure, and tuning up our war machine. There are many other little projects that our pilots could be concentrating on that would strengthen the Empire rather than weaken it.

If you have problems with Vice by all means go after him. I haven't spoken with him about the matter but the recent upgrades are more than likely the result of the fact that most people don't like to be pushed around...there is also the fact that he agreed to keep the MO up.

Careful backing Vice, he will make you look stupid like he did me when i backed him. Hes your best mate till u say no, be warned

OK... Vice ATTACKED the ESC with bombers, has killed lots of emp pilots and your basically saying 'so what?, our sectors our rules'. Its not good enough man, if CA were attacked we would back them strait away on principle and destroy the offenders MO, not back some unreliable pirate TSS.

CA has to decide where there loyalties lie because your coming across all wrong and i hope misunderstood atm.


Seriously cut your loss's and walk away is my honest friendly advice

"Is there anyone who would dispute our right to police our own sectors? "? If "your" sector is within imperial territory then I'll challenge your "authority" or anybody elses to govern their space if their decisions are against the best interest of the empire. And no excuses, he attacked a SB, that's enough reason.

1. Vice's actions in the ESC have caused all SB owners in the EWSC (much to Vice's dismay) to remove him from their FLs (if he was on there in the first place).

2. Vice's MO itself represents two things:
a. a substantial investment of APs, materials, and credits
b. a non-profit building for Vice
c. a quick & easy place for folks to hack Vice's location, if they should so desire

3. Vice's illegal buildings (two) inside the Ayinti nook represent:
a. a substantial investment of APs, materials, and credits
b. profitable buildings for Vice

4. CA was not involved in the recent upgrades to Vice's MO. Those upgrades were most likely done with the assistance of GREED members, who have never had any access to any of the funding our cluster has received for our Pass Emp MO constructions.


Per 3b, would the desire for others to attack Vice's MO be removed if Vice agreed to take down his illegals within the Ayinti nook (and agree never to build there again)? Part of me agrees with Nunki (pull off the band-aid quickly) to sever ties completely & be very clear in where our allegiances lie (with the Empire) by removing all of Vice's assets within the EWSC.

However, another part of me believes that if the MO is the only building of Vice's that remains in the EWSC, it would represent an asset for the EWSC and a non-asset for Vice (as it can't earn him any cash, occupies one of his building slots, and gives others easy access to hacking him.

Let's hear some thoughts on the following options:
1. Remove / destroy Vice's illegals within the nook, and keep his MO intact.
2. Remove / destroy Vice's MO and illegals within the Ayinti nook.
3. Do nothing.

These are listed in the order in which I prefer them, but I would like to hear arguments for / against each. Or, if you think there are other alternatives, please voice them here.

I'm trying to be both logical & practical about this issue & hope we will resolve this quickly.

from an IOO pov we'd like to see number 2 done, and yes we could donate some droids to help with construction of a new MO, i know getting this things up takes some time so as long as a reasonable time frame was agreed to (in terms of the removal of the MO) then we'd be happy to wait,

the other buildings in the WESC should however be removed without delay, it is unfortunate that some production will suffer because of this but this is part of the cost when an old ally turns pirate, its happened to IOO many times in the past and i can assure you it will sadden happen to us both in the future, just destroy the buildings and move on

i cant imagine #1 would be very workable. It is likely to cause bad blood between you and vice and leaves him in control of passage to your drug nook. We've already seen how vindictive he can be when ties are severed (with IT) and personally i would think your only options are #2 and #3. Salts already given IOO's thoughts on the matter so i dont need to bother there

Blannor wrote:

i cant imagine #1 would be very workable. It is likely to cause bad blood between you and vice and leaves him in control of passage to your drug nook. We've already seen how vindictive he can be when ties are severed (with IT) and personally i would think your only options are #2 and #3. Salts already given IOO's thoughts on the matter so i dont need to bother there

i think there are 2 mo's at that nook, so whatever if vice block everybody, the only thing he could do to take vengeance is destroy his mo

...wich would put us at option 2 but without wasting ap's and ressources at taking it down



or did i miss something?

i was thinking more along the lines of he could let somebody like aretho inside the nook (ok he would be better off letting someone actually capable inside but you get the idea)

The MO is not in a Pass sector, so it's not a major security risk.
It's protecting a nook with his own buildings. The Empire would still have access to the nook even if he changed his settings.

What's the worst that could happen by leaving it there? As Lobby already pointed out, it comes with the convenience of being able to hack him.

I've only heard positive things about Vice's contribution to the EWSC defenses. His actions in the ESC were part of a dispute with a particular alliance and not the Empire in general, though attacking a structure as important as an Imperial SB is a grave matter indeed.

My question is this: how useful is he to the Empire?
He's donated building slots to provide us with drugs. Good. If he will help us in the next war, then I'm less inclined to make an enemy of him. The Citizens Arena is nt an appropriate area to confirm his assistance, though.